| This is starting to get funny, but I happened to be in a discussion about the new Pokemon and saw people literally attacking Ash, including calling him a dumb and worse protagonist while bragging about the new show and the new protagonist. I could say it's just another simps that gets overly horny with the new female protagonist, but as we've discussed a bunch of times here, the new hyped shows are once again causing some overreaction from people. What do you think of it? Is Ash really dumb and a bad protagonist? Or are the newcomers unfairly criticizing him in favor of the new protagonist? |
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| I've seen a few episodes of the new Pokemon ,and tbh she's smarter than Ash but lacks his charisma. And I doubt anyone is getting horny for Liko |
| Wait, why people now suddenly hate Ash? I thought he was a decent guy/MC, but attacking a 26-year 10 year-old is harsh. Haven't seen the new Pokemon, so I don't know about the new MCs |
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people literally attacking Ash, including calling him a dumb and worse protagonist Honestly, I don't think you can just use the simp argument this time when even fans of the Pokémon anime have trashed Ash Ketchum for decades. |
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HyroSan said: From what I can see, a few people suggested that people were over-praising her because she's a girl, after which the kids started calling Ash dumb and attacking him. Apparently, this is a typical new vs old defense, when criticism of the new meets a demonstrative attack of the old. I regularly see this dynamic in these debates.Wait, why people now suddenly hate Ash? I thought he was a decent guy/MC, but attacking a 26-year 10 year-old is harsh. Haven't seen the new Pokemon, so I don't know about the new MCs Cestlavie_ said: It's hard for me to explain otherwise why her most aggressive advocates are typical fans of CGDCT and other waifu works.I've seen a few episodes of the new Pokemon ,and tbh she's smarter than Ash but lacks his charisma. And I doubt anyone is getting horny for Liko |
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Fario-P said: First, it depends on which "fans" we are talking about. I see a lot of people who have only recently started watching anime but are already trying to pose as olds lol. Secondly, criticizing a character you've spent years with and attacking him to praise a new waifu are two different things. P.S. Half of the video in the link criticizes Goh, not Ash.people literally attacking Ash, including calling him a dumb and worse protagonist Honestly, I don't think you can just use the simp argument this time when even fans of the Pokémon anime have trashed Ash Ketchum for decades. |
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Elitist-chan said: Are you now seriously using "shonen MC" as a derogatory term and implying that Ash had no doubts and no internal thoughts? I'm starting to feel déjà vu when people called Bocchi a unique and relatable show because of social anxiety jokes.I was into Pokemon since early 2000s, and while Ash is truly an iconic character, and DID evolve personality-wise over the years, he still kinda remained as 90s shonen MC. I only saw parts of those last few alternate universe movies, and in them Ash felt much more modern. As for Liko, IMO, from what she showed even in first episode of her appearance, she is a better character than Ash - she simply feels more human. We hear her internal thoughts, she's relatable, has her doubts, etc... |
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Elitist-chan said: But you literally said it. At the same time, ignoring that Lico is the same shoujo MC archetype as Ash shonen. Not to mention, criticizing a kids' show for a childish protagonist is kind of weird.RobertBobert said: I'm not trying to use it in that way, it's just...Are you now seriously using "shonen MC" as a derogatory term and implying that Ash had no doubts and no internal thoughts? I'm starting to feel déjà vu when people called Bocchi a unique and relatable show because of social anxiety jokes. Well, it's the only way to describe Ash's personality in main series, he was simply never that deep. Even compared to some other shonen MCs, like Naruto, Ash was always more like the archetype. The archetype doesn't stop a character from being deep, not to mention you're literally saying that a new show character had more depth in the first episode than a character after 20 years of writing and development. This sounds challenging to say the least. It has literally been a show about Ash's experiences and adventures for over twenty years, it's strange to say that he didn't have any inner struggles or doubts. |
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| When he started out as a trainer, Ash/Satoshi was dumb. There is no question about it. If you disagree, then explain why he felt so confident that a low level, freshly caught caterpie would fare well against a pigeotto. Even if you know nothing about pokemon, it should be obvious that a larvae wouldn’t be the best pick against a bird. If this wasn’t a kid’s show, caterpie would almost certainly have been eaten. I’m not even attacking Ash/Satoshi, I’m just saying the truth. Liko, on the other hand, didn’t make such dumb mistake in the first few episodes. She was smart enough to not trust the guy asking for her pendant. This doesn’t mean that she’s the smartest protagonist in existence, only that she has some basic common sense. |
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| This is nothing new. Many of us Millenials who actually grew up watching the first anime series as kids have been dunking on Ash since forever. |
| On the other hand, the pokemon battles when Ash/Satoshi was the main protagonist were amazing. The iconic soundtrack, the energy. Meanwhile, the pokemon battles in the new season are just an afterthought. Maybe that will change? Edit: well, excluding the first gym battle, because that win was complete bs. |
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DreamingBeats said: Oh my god, the new character didn't make the old character's mistakes in the first episodes over 20 years ago?! She is definitely smarter than him! Also, this is my last reply to you. You have been on my blacklist for a long time because of arguments for the sake of arguments and stupid takes, sorry.When he started out as a trainer, Ash/Satoshi was dumb. There is no question about it. If you disagree, then explain why he felt so confident that a low level, freshly caught caterpie would fare well against a pigeotto. Even if you know nothing about pokemon, it should be obvious that a larvae wouldn’t be the best pick against a bird. If this wasn’t a kid’s show, caterpie would almost certainly have been eaten. I’m not even attacking Ash/Satoshi, I’m just saying the truth. Liko, on the other hand, didn’t make such dumb mistake in the first few episodes. She was smart enough to not trust the guy asking for her pendant. This doesn’t mean that she’s the smartest protagonist in existence, only that she has some basic common sense. Stygian_Prisoner said: Again, different things. I have seen certain problems with Amuro or other Gundam protagonists, but I will definitely not shout that G-Witch is the best Gundam and that Suletta is the coolest of all the protagonists before her.This is nothing new. Many of us Millenials who actually grew up watching the first anime series as kids have been dunking on Ash since forever. |
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| As a Pokémon Fan myself, I can honestly say that everybody always kinda hated Ash because he was always an annoying idiot who basically got most badges "for free" or in a different way than intended and still was like 1-2 cities behind Gary or any other random rival at the time. And on top of that, he lost the League (almost) every time. Most Pokémon "Fans" are just as dumb as they claim Ash to be: For 25 Years: omg Ash sucks... March 2023: Noooo Ash was the best we will miss him!! Pokémon Horizons gets announced: wow Pokémon will never be the same, this will be soooo bad, we want Ash back. Pokémon Horizons actually comes out: bruh Liko is 100x better than Ash; this is wayyy better than the old Pokémon... I don't think this has actually anything to do with which Protagonist is better, if that makes sense, but it's just a different Story, different Characters and basically an almost completely different Anime overall and it's just a matter of getting used to it. Honestly, I also don't quite understand it either. Also, extremely weird that people literally simp over a 10-year-old girl... I've seen the threads though. Yuck. |
azadsanimelist said: Again, cutting off that part of the people who will always idolize the female protagonist over the male protagonists simply because of simping, I just find it immature and pointless. In most cases, when people attack the old in an attempt to defend the new, it looks like pointless aggression due to lack of arguments. I immediately remember how the defenders of the Rings of Power non-ironically wrote "Tolkien was not the best writer either" defending the show, lol.As a Pokémon Fan myself, I can honestly say that everybody always kinda hated Ash because he was always an annoying idiot who basically got most badges "for free" or in a different way than intended and still was like 1-2 cities behind Gary or any other random rival at the time. And on top of that, he lost the League (almost) every time. Most Pokémon "Fans" are just as dumb as they claim Ash to be: For 25 Years: omg Ash sucks... March 2023: Noooo Ash was the best we will miss him!! Pokémon Horizons gets announced: wow Pokémon will never be the same, this will be soooo bad, we want Ash back. Pokémon Horizons actually comes out: bruh Liko is 100x better than Ash; this is wayyy better than the old Pokémon... I don't think this has actually anything to do with which Protagonist is better, if that makes sense, but it's just a different Story, different Characters and basically an almost completely different Anime overall and it's just a matter of getting used to it. Honestly, I also don't quite understand it either. Also, extremely weird that people literally simp over a 10-year-old girl... I've seen the threads though. Yuck. |
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| Absolutely agree. People just immediately shit on everything that's new. If it's actually bad they come around with a "I TOLD YOU SO!!11!!!" and if it's good they just try to find arguments out of thin air and 95% of the time, say the complete opposite of what they just stated minutes ago. |
| Some observations of mine: - Satoshi "Ash Ketchum" is indeed a dumb character. This is by design. He is supposed to be relatable to your average pokemon fan: trying everything, buying everything, being hyped for every new product, merchandise and cross promotion. No personal traits, no personal preferences, no remarkable achievements. The ultimate pokemon simp. I guess retiring him is a sign that he is not relatable anymore, but this happening decades later says a lot... The question is, will the new MC being practically a gender flipped version? I suspect so. - Yes, the zoomers do everything by attacking: expressing dissatisfaction, expressing joy...also they tend to deny the right of existence of everything before them. The word "legacy" is a dirty one for them. But the thing is they were indoctrinated doing that by the millennials. (And yeah, we the gen-x-ers aren't much better either, but at least we are more chill and not as fanatical.) Obviously I hate the pokemon anime...noting against the games tho. They look fun from the sidelines . |
alshuMay 23, 2023 2:07 AM
| Is Ash really dumb and a bad protagonist? The problem is that keeping the same protagonist for 1000+ episodes without growing up is the literal definition of lazy writing: coming up with a new equally charismatic protagonist for every gen or making him grow in an interesting and consistent way (so character development that gets reset in the next arc doesn't count) is inherently harder. The actual execution of the anime maybe isn't that bad, but the first impression can't be positive when the foundation is so flawed. |
| It's actually nice to see people realizing the bad writing |
| If you want to reply to my posts, come up with valid arguments instead of ad hominem HIGHER LEVEL THINKERS ONLY |
Nirinbo said: Is Ash really dumb and a bad protagonist? The problem is that keeping the same protagonist for 1000+ episodes without growing up is the literal definition of lazy writing: coming up with a new equally charismatic protagonist for every gen or making him grow in an interesting and consistent way (so character development that gets reset in the next arc doesn't count) is inherently harder. The actual execution of the anime maybe isn't that bad, but the first impression can't be positive when the foundation is so flawed. They had a whole pkmn manga on this same concept That would hv been better as an anime man |
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| Ash has always been dumb even before the new series and everyone has been saying that for decades. It needs a special kind of personality to be main character of a kids show for 25 years. Ash had his place but a change was long overdue. I wouldn't compare a character after 7 episodes to a character that was there for over 1200 episodes. Liko also already had her dumb moments but she's cute for sure and I see potential in her becoming a great new protagonist. |
| Pokemon is such a long running franchise with different writers, arcs, "soft reboot", season, story line and filler episodes that there is honestly not just one Ash. In some parts of the franchise, Ash can be a very stupid, unlikable, badly written and a bland main character. In other parts of the franchise, he is amazing, likable, his dumbness can be part of what makes him good... I have personally rarely seen someone say that Liko is better in an overreacting way, actually I have mostly seen the opposite and people being totally hermetic and nonsensical toward having a new protagonist. But the general consensus from what I've seen so far, whether from a younger or older audience seems to be that she's different in a good way but that there is not enough that was shown to say if she's better or worse. It's mostly that so far, she's well written for pokemon standard ( I'm not saying it is some genius writing ), when Ash had some great ups and terrible downs. And maybe some people remember more those parts where Ash was badly written which is what makes them say that Liko is a better MC. I could imagine that some of those "newcomers" are probably ( like me ) people that grew tired of the old formula with Ash and now that they have something different, they are excited about it. But again, for me, I haven't seen too much of those overreactions in comparison to old fans being hermetic to any change in a franchise. |
justanormiMay 23, 2023 2:10 AM
alshu said: Some observations of mine: - Satoshi "Ash Ketchum" is indeed a dumb character. This is by design. He is supposed to be relatable to your average pokemon fan: trying everything, buying everything, being hyped for every new product, merchandise and cross promotion. No personal traits, no personal preferences, no remarkable achievements. The ultimate pokemon simp. I guess retiring him is a sign that he is not relatable anymore, but this happening decades later says a lot... The question is, will the new MC being practically a gender flipped version? I suspect so. - Yes, the zoomers do everything by attacking: expressing dissatisfaction, expressing joy...also they tend to deny the right of existence of everything before them. The word "legacy" is a dirty one for them. But the thing is they were indoctrinated doing that by the millennials. (And yeah, we the gen-x-ers aren't much better either, but at least we are more chill and not as fanatical.) And yeah, I hate the pokemn anime...noting against the games tho. They look fun from the sidelines . Pokémon really lives rent free in your head or why else would you post in ever Pokémon thread despite not having watched a single episode? And that statement comes from a Gundam/Detective Conan fan. The irony lmao. |
Za_Panda said: Nirinbo said: Is Ash really dumb and a bad protagonist? The problem is that keeping the same protagonist for 1000+ episodes without growing up is the literal definition of lazy writing: coming up with a new equally charismatic protagonist for every gen or making him grow in an interesting and consistent way (so character development that gets reset in the next arc doesn't count) is inherently harder. The actual execution of the anime maybe isn't that bad, but the first impression can't be positive when the foundation is so flawed. They had a whole pkmn manga on this same concept That would hv been better as an anime man PokeSpe is actually my favorite manga, even though I know it isn't perfect. And not because it's supposedly "edgier" as some haters often say, but because every arc is different (only a couple of arcs follow a plotline like "group travels together around the region and one of them gets the gym badges") and the main characters already have their own attitudes, goals and peculiarities since before their first appearance instead of starting off as blank slates. |
| Ash has been considered stupid since the very start of his anime, decades ago. None of that is new. The only difference now is that there's someone to compare him to, a protag who isn't completely braindead and took 25 years to learn the most basic knowledge about the creatures his entire society is built around. (I don't actually hate Ash, but smarts wasn't exactly something he was ever known for...I mean we are talking about the guy who took like 8 seasons to learn basic type advantages and who couldn't see through the most laughable disguises by Team Rocket.) Also, I severely doubt that people are horny for the new protag, isn't Liko 10 y.o. as well? I think it's just people's general tendency to shittalk something they liked previously whenever they start getting into a new thing. Not a trend I ever understood, but it's very common 🤷♀️ |
ateks said: despite not having watched a single episode? But I have watched 15-20 episodes on RTL2 back in the 00s. Kind of liked Team Rocket even. And yeah, Ash was the dumb obsessed otaku who abandoned his single mother and went to have the blandest adventures possible, while never doing any progress in his field of choice...it was obvious even at that phase. ateks said: The irony lmao. Yep, very ironic: - Of you assuming I have no idea about the Pokemon anime. - Not being familiar with Gundam which is tons a very different shows (many are trash tho) under one franchise - from seinen war drama like Thunderbolt to hobby sport shows like Build Fighters. - Detective Conan is one big collection of detective puzzles. It's like sudoku. It doesn't need plot progression. |
SleepySera said: Have you ever met CGDCT fanboys who are obsessed with any female character like waifu? Also, a lot of the things that you criticize were either done for comedy, or to develop the character and give him new experiences, or just to make him a more relatable living person.Ash has been considered stupid since the very start of his anime, decades ago. None of that is new. The only difference now is that there's someone to compare him to, a protag who isn't completely braindead and took 25 years to learn the most basic knowledge about the creatures his entire society is built around. (I don't actually hate Ash, but smarts wasn't exactly something he was ever known for...I mean we are talking about the guy who took like 8 seasons to learn basic type advantages and who couldn't see through the most laughable disguises by Team Rocket.) Also, I severely doubt that people are horny for the new protag, isn't Liko 10 y.o. as well? I think it's just people's general tendency to shittalk something they liked previously whenever they start getting into a new thing. Not a trend I ever understood, but it's very common 🤷♀️ |
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RobertBobert said: Again, different things. I have seen certain problems with Amuro or other Gundam protagonists, but I will definitely not shout that G-Witch is the best Gundam and that Suletta is the coolest of all the protagonists before her. I don't know what exactly the discourse around the new female protagonist is ('cause I'm not watching the show). But if the main issue here is about using Ash as a sacrificial lamb to prop up another protagonist then, yeah, that's still nothing new. Red vs Ash memes have been around since the Rage Comics era of memes. Ash is just arguably Pokémon's easiest target and the lowest-hanging fruit:  |
OrororurandoMay 23, 2023 9:45 AM
You clearly don't know the Internet, bud. Liko seems like a good character but so far I can't say I prefer her to Ash. Sure she seems to be more complex but there was something about old 90s anime protagonists being so confident and stubborn that I appreciate a lot more than modern "complex" protagonists which try to represent nowadays youth. That said, Ash stopped being interesting around Unova, for me. His journey from Kanto to Sinnoh is memorable and you clearly see how he has grown as a character during RS and DP (basically being a teacher to May and Dawn, basically on the same level as Brock), while even during XYZ (which is considered by many the best series) he returns to his unexperienced, silly self. |
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alshu said: Some observations of mine: - Satoshi "Ash Ketchum" is indeed a dumb character. This is by design. He is supposed to be relatable to your average pokemon fan: trying everything, buying everything, being hyped for every new product, merchandise and cross promotion. No personal traits, no personal preferences, no remarkable achievements. The ultimate pokemon simp. I guess retiring him is a sign that he is not relatable anymore, but this happening decades later says a lot... The question is, will the new MC being practically a gender flipped version? I suspect so. The Pokémon anime started in 1997, so I doubt this was their goal lol. Pokémon wasn't as big as it is now or was during the early 2000s. I stopped watching Pokémon around 2015, but saying Ash doesn't have a personality or so is complete BS. Ash is an energetic guy, he is inexperienced but wants to learn, is really competitive, can easily get angry, proud of himself and his friends, but at the same time he's a good guy with a heart of gold, always trying to help and (after his personal growth) trying to avoid useless fighting with other people. He isn't the most complex character out there, but he definitely has a personality. I feel like nowadays people consider complex or good only characters with some mental illness or whatev. What's wrong about a character being "normal"? Even in real life you can find people who are less complex than others, life just shape us in different ways. These kind of people would be totally shocked when looking at old pop culture characters. Like, I can imagine them saying "Street Fighter is bad because Ryu isn't a complex character!!!". As OP said, this feels exactly like when people were saying Bocchi The Rock was the greatest shit because the protagonist was a depressed loner and her entire personaloity revolved around the fact she had anxiety. |
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Pitto_ said: alshu said: Some observations of mine: - Satoshi "Ash Ketchum" is indeed a dumb character. This is by design. He is supposed to be relatable to your average pokemon fan: trying everything, buying everything, being hyped for every new product, merchandise and cross promotion. No personal traits, no personal preferences, no remarkable achievements. The ultimate pokemon simp. I guess retiring him is a sign that he is not relatable anymore, but this happening decades later says a lot... The question is, will the new MC being practically a gender flipped version? I suspect so. The Pokémon anime started in 1997, so I doubt this was their goal lol. Pokémon wasn't as big as it is now or was during the early 2000s. I stopped watching Pokémon around 2015, but saying Ash doesn't have a personality or so is complete BS. Ash is an energetic guy, he is inexperienced but wants to learn, is really competitive, can easily get angry, proud of himself and his friends, but at the same time he's a good guy with a heart of gold, always trying to help and (after his personal growth) trying to avoid useless fighting with other people. He isn't the most complex character out there, but he definitely has a personality. I feel like nowadays people consider complex or good only characters with some mental illness or whatev. What's wrong about a character being "normal"? Even in real life you can find people who are less complex than others, life just shape us in different ways. These kind of people would be totally shocked when looking at old pop culture characters. Like, I can imagine them saying "Street Fighter is bad because Ryu isn't a complex character!!!". As OP said, this feels exactly like when people were saying Bocchi The Rock was the greatest shit because the protagonist was a depressed loner and her entire personaloity revolved around the fact she had anxiety. I totally agree with you here. I like Ash and Pikachu so much! It is my childhood! I ALWAYS RUSHED to watch new episode after school. We even played chips with different Pokemons at summer camp. It was a truly fantastic time! |
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| Thread moved to Series Discussion. |
Pitto_ said: but saying Ash doesn't have a personality or so is complete BS. Oh, he does have a personality...he is a nice kind but kind of blunt. Pitto_ said: Ash is an energetic guy Every otaku gets energetic when a new product is released. Pitto_ said: he is inexperienced For decades... Pitto_ said: wants to learn Never proceeds to do so. Pitto_ said: is really competitive But when he meets actual obstacles looses that quality. He is big only in his words. Pitto_ said: can easily get angry That's not a good quality tho, especially for competitive sports. Pitto_ said: he's a good guy with a heart of gold ...only when pokemons are involved...see "pokemon simp". Pitto_ said: trying to avoid useless fighting with other people Well, not from my experience...maybe he becomes like that later...and idea implanted by the producers. Pitto_ said: but he definitely has a personality Why a big chunk of the fandom is hating him tho? Maybe because his personality is not that interesting? Pitto_ said: What's wrong about a character being "normal"? He is boring and unremarkable. That works IRL, but not in entertainment. Pitto_ said: "Street Fighter is bad because Ryu isn't a complex character!!!". The Street Fighter anime are indeed boring...the fighting games are something else tho. Pitto_ said: As OP said, this feels exactly like when people were saying Bocchi The Rock was the greatest shit because the protagonist was a depressed loner Thing is I dropped Bocchi before even finishing the first episode. Memore said: I like Ash and Pikachu so much! It is my childhood! Wow, nostalgia bias. Memore said: I ALWAYS RUSHED to watch new episode after school. This is like saying "I was brainwashed by the media as kid and I am proud of it!". By the way since the topic was moved from Anime Discussion, I don't see a point to post in it anymore. |
alshuMay 23, 2023 9:29 AM
| Yeah Ash is blunt, but every character in Pokémon is kinda bland, isn't it? Also, that's a trait too. He was inexperienced for decades because The Pokémon Company forced the anime to go on even after it should have originally ended (around Johto Arc), as the author himself said. And then again, he do get some experiences: as I said, during the Hoenn/Sinnoh Arc he is really talented and even acts as a teacher to new trainers. He was at the peak of his career, too bad they decided to nerf him down after that. Ash does not lose his energy when he meet an obstacle. Did you even watched the show past Episode 5? Ash is probably the definition of the "strong guy". He is much like Naruto or other shonen generic MCs who "never gives up" and things like that. Getting angry isn't a good trait, yeah, but when did I talk about "good personality"? He has a personality, I never talked about it being good or bad. No, he isn't good only with Pokémon. Many times during the filler episodes he helps random people he just met without Pokémon getting heavily involved. Then again, the main focus of the anime ARE the Pokémon, why shouldn't they be at the center of every episode? It would be like having a sport anime being about a guy trying to study for his university exams. Nobody would care about it, because it's a sport anime. I was talking about the games tho, never watched the SF films. But then again, Ryu was (and is) a good character without needing too much depth, isn't he? Pokémon is an anime aimed for kids, maybe we shouldn't be looking for such interesting characters here. Ash isn't more or less interesting than Naruto, Luffy or Goku. They are all part of the same archetype of character from the 80s/90s. @alshu |
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azadsanimelist said: Absolutely agree. People just immediately shit on everything that's new. If it's actually bad they come around with a "I TOLD YOU SO!!11!!!" and if it's good they just try to find arguments out of thin air and 95% of the time, say the complete opposite of what they just stated minutes ago. this is quite literally the opposite of what the OP says though. SleepySera said: Also, I severely doubt that people are horny for the new protag, isn't Liko 10 y.o. as well? I think it's just people's general tendency to shittalk something they liked previously whenever they start getting into a new thing. Not a trend I ever understood, but it's very common Is Liko her official English name? I tried looking, but there's only her official Japanese name, with many places calling her as either Liko or Riko. The differences so far seem to be due to different romanization standard. Personally I think Riko makes more sense unless the original creators chose Liko as her official English name. I think it's pretty bizarre and even mildly disturbing that OP thinks of simping a 10-year old character in a children's show. I said disturbing because I have seen a trend where people will loudly attack and accuse others of something...other to be found out that they themselves do it. I'm not saying the OP is simping on the previous 10-year old protagonist, but. I'm not even going to mention how things such as 'simping' or 'waifu' are incredibly dumb things that is somehow prevalent in the anime fandom. |
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MalchikRepaid said: Leaving aside the rude attack on those born in the 90s, I will only say that Lico is no different from a typical shoujo female MC.I think it's more reasonable to say that Ash/Satoshi is a character that represents Japanese children of the mid-1990s. I'm pretty sure that the new main characters mainly represent early 2020s Japanese children. SobbleBoy27 said: Liko is so much better than Ash for real though XD I love pokemon 2023 and don't miss Ash at all. Stygian_Prisoner said: My complaint is not that people criticize Ash. There's nothing wrong with criticizing a character. My main complaint is that the new people once again arrogantly overhype the new show to the point of being offensive to the old one.RobertBobert said: Again, different things. I have seen certain problems with Amuro or other Gundam protagonists, but I will definitely not shout that G-Witch is the best Gundam and that Suletta is the coolest of all the protagonists before her. I don't know what exactly the discourse around the new female protagonist is ('cause I'm not watching the show). But if the main issue here is about using Ash as a sacrificial lamb to prop up another protagonist then, yeah, that's still nothing new. Red vs Ash memes have been around since the Rage Comics era of memes. Ash is just arguably Pokémon's easiest target: P.S Lol, fan of CGDCT with Chino on userpic trying to bait me on allegations of pedophilia. It even offends me that you un-ironically try to provoke me in such a lame way. |
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Pitto_ said: Getting angry isn't a good trait depends on the context/situation. didn't Ash and his companions become upset when a bratty kid intentionally left his Charmander to die in the rocks? Ash/Satoshi may have made dumb mistakes, but he still loves pokemon, and being angry on behalf of Charmander is a nice trait in my book and shows that he really cares about the pokemon he encounters. |
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DreamingBeats said: Pitto_ said: Getting angry isn't a good trait depends on the context/situation. didn't Ash and his companions become upset when a bratty kid intentionally left his Charmander to die in the rocks? He may have made dumb mistakes, but he still loves pokemon, and being angry on behalf of Charmander is a nice trait in my book. Yeah, in that case, it is. But that other guy said it isn't a good trait in competitive sports (and Pokémon battles are treated as such in the anime). |
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MalchikRepaid said: According to the creator, he was inspired by the Japanese game of picking up bugs when he created the game. But in general, Pokémon is considered a kodomo show, so the official target audience is kids under 13.RobertBobert said: I always think that Pokemon is a reflection of Japanese youth culture.Leaving aside the rude attack on those born in the 90s, I will only say that Lico is no different from a typical shoujo female MC. |
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MalchikRepaid said: RobertBobert said: I guess I am sort of right? Or maybe not. I don't know. You be the judge.According to the creator, he was inspired by the Japanese game of picking up bugs when he created the game. But in general, Pokémon is considered a kodomo show, so the official target audience is kids under 13. judging by the level of Japanese used, the fact the series uses little to no kanji (all character names are in kana) and the fact the protagonists are 10 strongly suggest that the target audience are really kids below the age of 10 - probably 7 and below. They can't use kanji if it's too hard for the target audience to understand, after all. To put things into perspective, a 13-year should be able to comfortably read manga with a lot of kanji and even some newspapers. By age 12 they learn enough kanji (a little over 1,000) to theoretically be able to pass N2 with little trouble. that aside, you're right that the main target audience are the youth. |
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alshu said: Pitto_ said: but saying Ash doesn't have a personality or so is complete BS. Oh, he does have a personality...he is a nice kind but kind of blunt. Pitto_ said: Ash is an energetic guy Every otaku gets energetic when a new product is released. Pitto_ said: he is inexperienced For decades... Pitto_ said: wants to learn Never proceeds to do so. Pitto_ said: is really competitive But when he meets actual obstacles looses that quality. He is big only in his words. Pitto_ said: can easily get angry That's not a good quality tho, especially for competitive sports. Pitto_ said: he's a good guy with a heart of gold ...only when pokemons are involved...see "pokemon simp". Pitto_ said: trying to avoid useless fighting with other people Well, not from my experience...maybe he becomes like that later...and idea implanted by the producers. Pitto_ said: but he definitely has a personality Why a big chunk of the fandom is hating him tho? Maybe because his personality is not that interesting? Pitto_ said: What's wrong about a character being "normal"? He is boring and unremarkable. That works IRL, but not in entertainment. Pitto_ said: "Street Fighter is bad because Ryu isn't a complex character!!!". The Street Fighter anime are indeed boring...the fighting games are something else tho. Pitto_ said: As OP said, this feels exactly like when people were saying Bocchi The Rock was the greatest shit because the protagonist was a depressed loner Thing is I dropped Bocchi before even finishing the first episode. Memore said: I like Ash and Pikachu so much! It is my childhood! Wow, nostalgia bias. Memore said: I ALWAYS RUSHED to watch new episode after school. This is like saying "I was brainwashed by the media as kid and I am proud of it!". By the way since the topic was moved from Anime Discussion, I don't see a point to post in it anymore. What? I like it and that is all! What a nonsense you wrote indeed. How can kids even be brainwashed by watching cartoons? My advice to you to think first and then do it to look wiser to other people. |
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| Is it really that serious tho? Pokemon was, is, and will always be a kids show and no new character will change how iconic Ash and Pikachu were to the anime |
Advide said: It's like seeing adults in the west arguing about Japanese children's shows for the first time.Is it really that serious tho? Pokemon was, is, and will always be a kids show and no new character will change how iconic Ash and Pikachu were to the anime MalchikRepaid said: Well, at least that's how it was at the time the franchise was conceived as such. At the time of the broadcast of the first anime, it was not yet a fully-fledged international phenomenon that even people who did not know what anime was even knew about.RobertBobert said: I guess I am sort of right? Or maybe not. I don't know. You be the judge.According to the creator, he was inspired by the Japanese game of picking up bugs when he created the game. But in general, Pokémon is considered a kodomo show, so the official target audience is kids under 13. |
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